They might be, depending on your question. In her latest Buzzscope column, Tania del Rio looks at several problems that anthologies might solve. One is a byproduct of manga creep: There are so many titles out now that anyone with a finite income has to pick and choose, and that often means not taking a chance on a new series. Anthologies would allow the customer to sample different series before making a commitment.
Another problem is the lenthy time between releases of global manga volumes. Most manga-kas working in English take about a year to produce a volume, because they work without assistants. That slow pace keeps fans waiting and dims the excitement somewhat. Anthologies would allow them to release their work a chapter at a time.
And finally, there’s the Tokyopop “online exclusives,” which are no longer online exclusives. Tokyopop felt these books weren’t finding an audience through the traditional channels, which is a polite way to say they weren’t selling. If they were mixed into an anthology with more popular works, they might find that audience, and Tokyopop would be spared the expense of doing tankoubons for which there is no demand.
I agree with Tania. I’d like to see more manga in anthology form. And I’ll add that the fact that we get Shojo Beat has not stopped us from buying the tanks when they come out; as I correctly predicted a year ago, Viz has found a way to sell us the same book twice. As Dave Carter demonstrated earlier this week, Tokyopop seems to be releasing more low-numbered volumes per month than Viz, and thus is perceived as flooding the market. But they don’t really promote the titles much, so they’re sinking under their own weight. A proper anthology would help build an audience for them.
This has always bugged me a bit…Is VIZ actually a licensor anymore? I mean to say, ‘their new titles’ seems misleading to me, since they’re just translating titles they own all ready, in Japan. 0_o
This is actually common practice in Germany- many of their global manga series (nine that I can think of) are placed in manga anthologies alongside licensed series, which (supposedly) helps build a solid base of readers.
Of course, in America, the only publisher with successful anthologies doesn’t produce global manga, so… who knows if/when it’ll happen here.
Like I’ve said before.. online-only English Anthology. It’s so obvious but no one want to do it. Just forces the kids to rely on scanlation. Shesh.
Yeah, to quote the great Egan, “Print is dead.” :D
I’m still a big believer that the Netcomics model is the way to go. With scanlations running rampant, that’s proof that manga readers these days are more digital and more apt to reading manga online. BY embracing online manga, you can attract readers to your site and hence, your product. Lots of ad revenue to be made. I’d love to be able to “subscribe” to an online version of a phonebook, even go ahead and fill it with ads that I have to click past. The distribution is much cheaper as well.
The problem is, the manga publishers (both US and especially in JP) are behind the times or too unwilling to really put this model to work. The contracts have to specifically allow for online distro, which no one has either thought about or been willing to give a try. S. Korea was forced to due to the crash of the industry because everyone was scanning and downloading, and it revitalized their industry.
The online model totally fits with TOKYOPOP’s new online semi-exclusive model they are trying to figure out as well, not to mention they have a head start with their OEL titles. Pimp new titles through their reader, charge a quarter per chapter while giving the first chapters away for free, and maybe give user accounts “points” per chapter they purchase which they can cash in for discounts on purchasing that “exclusive and exciting!” direct manga from their website.
Like I’ve said before.. online-only English Anthology. It’s so obvious but no one want to do it.
I used to follow one about 7 years ago before the site went defunct.
In terms of BL, netcomics will never fly. Many BL fans in the West are collectors at heart, and love having the books in their hands. I think a poll was done on some ‘yaoi’ site; I don’t have the link, which is unfortunate.
I don’t see there beeing an online phonebook-sized anthology right now. That just seems counterproductive considering how long it takes to translation/letter/proof a given manga. I think if you did happen to see an online phonebook…it’d be poorly put together (no sfx or bad retouch) and require, for lack of a better word, patched versions of the file to be reissued if any problems like missing pages or missing text came up. I think you’d definitely see less proofing and more “let’s just get it out the door” thinking happening.
And that doesn’t even touch on licensing and production costs…
But that’s all the more reason for people to buy the book! And consider that the alternative right now is scanlations, which are pretty uneven in their quality.
I can see why an established publisher wouldn’t want to do it, though, as it might tarnish their image. We need a third party, call it Manga Underground or Manga in the Raw or something, to put together anthologies or web manga. They could pay a royalty to the license holder, and ultimately the licensor would sell the finished, much more polished book.
That pretty much mimics the way the market is working now, except that people would have to pay for the intermediate step.
It’s the whole idea of “paying” for the intermediate step that I don’t see happening. Maybe if there was some big, huge “imanga” type site that could be the equiv. of itunes…then yeah, maybe it could work. But I just don’t see people jumping to pay for pdfs or jpgs of manga in North America. I just don’t see a market for it. ComicsOne started out like that and they didn’t make any money doing it during a time when the manga market was exploding. They were forced to shift to print and eventually OD’ed.
My view is that 75-95% of the people that download scanlations don’t actually read them (the same could be said about fansubs). They just download the files and probably don’t go to the trouble of ever unzipping them or looking at more than a few pages. We’re still a culture that likes to have physical products to show for the money spent. There is very much a collector’s mentality when it comes to books and DVDs…even if you just buy them to read or watch…you still buy them to have them.
There is very much a collector’s mentality when it comes to books and DVDs…even if you just buy them to read or watch…you still buy them to have them.
This is so true for BL fans. When Akiba Angels approached Caroline and I about turning our doujinshi in ‘digital doujinshi’ we checked it out with other circles in Japan who were currently doing it via http://www.digiket.com/ or http://www.livret.jp/, they said it was slow in coming, but their eSales of fan doujinshi was mostly in the form of ‘i-Mode’ or small screen downloads. ‘Mobile fans’. And even those weren’t going to replace the volumes of fan they sold to at spot sale events.
We went with Akiba, who translated our first two doujinshi into Japanese, but they were delivering them online in English. 0_0. I think they sold all of about 3 downloads, and fielded about 50 emails asking if the print version was still for sale.
-Tina
My view is that 75-95% of the people that download scanlations don’t actually read them (the same could be said about fansubs). They just download the files and probably don’t go to the trouble of ever unzipping them or looking at more than a few pages. We’re still a culture that likes to have physical products to show for the money spent.
I agree with this. I’m sure there are plenty of people who would like to see online anthologies, but I know that the one time I tried to read scanslations of an entire series (Monster, for the record), I made it through maybe the first volume out of sheer willpower before giving up. I’d much rather have something that can be read on the bus, you know? I can’t see paying for online images when I could get something portable that can be read anywhere, not just in front of a computer. I don’t know about everyone else, but reading too much at the computer gives me a massive headache.
Adam, I think your view is totally wrong. Downloading without reading them? Sure it happens, but that high of a number? For obscure manga you’ve never heard before. I don’t think so.
Whether we like or not, scanlation continue to be the primary way non-Japanese manga fans find new manga. I don’t care if an online anthology is poorly put to gether, it still beats downloading actual whole manga. Plus there’s the joy of reading manga in an chapter by chapter way that’s only being enjoyed by a few jump title fans. Like a manga phone book, most people won’t care about the quality of the anthology; they just want to read the manga. Like a real anthology, these things can be deleted after being read. You want to collect your favorite manga? Goto a bookstore and buy the tankouban.
So go ahead, self-destruct by flooding the print martket without a clue whether somethign sells, or do something so incredibly dumb as online ONLY exclusive. Some one else will take over your titles, TP, and I won’t be crying one bit when you’re bankrupt. Without an anthology to build a fanbase for a title will only force the publisher to resort to “see which one sticks” mentality. Kids, on the other hands, will just continue to read scanlations based on the recommendations of friends and sites like this. Without an anthology piracy is the ONLY valid method to have causual exposure to good titles. But given the way TP is run, well, bankruptcy maybe all but inevitable.
Saria, there are plenty of kids and poeple like myself who has read hundreds if not thousands of pages of manga on the computer. Your argument are similar to those who think people can’t read from right to left or dont’ want to read subtitle. Both assumptions are wrong.
I don’t see much potential in online anthologies at the moment. I don’t have much of a collector mentality anymore, but Viz’ magazines can be carried around to be easily read on the bus or in the doctor’s waiting room.
It’ll take a webcomic reading device that’s easily carried around, cheap to purchase and easy to use/read hitting the market before there’s much hope for online manga. The product, as it currently is, has too large of a convenience gap to surpass.
Print lives for now, just like how the “paperless office” resulted in an increase in paper usage.
::Adam, I think your view is totally wrong. Downloading without reading them? Sure it happens, but that high of a number? For obscure manga you’ve never heard before. I don’t think so.::
If we’re talking about fansubs and scanlation downloads, then there is a downloader mentality where you can’t just download 1 file…you have to download every scanlation or fansub for that series that has been released up to that point. Chances are that you don’t download one file, look at it, and then decide to download the others. No, you download them all right then and there…even if you never open more than one of the files.
There are 2 big reasons behind this. One is that broadband speeds and harddrive sizes make such mass downloading easy. The second is the fact that you might not ever get those files again if you wait as the series might have been licensed by the time you come back or the site/file might be gone.
Adam, that may or may not be the case, but it still irrelevant to the case for online athnologies. Non-Japanese manga fans needs a way to get in touch with new series, period. TP throwing random titles at the bookstore shelves and see what sticks is the surest way to bankruptcy. Since TP can’t seem to find a financial reason to publish one or more paper-based anthologies, the best option is for them to offer online manga magazine for a small fee. OTHERWISE, the kiddies are just going to Manga Jouhou and download whatever their friends or forums recommended. THAT IS A FACT.
For a guy like me who subscribe to titles like Afternoon and Dengeki Daioh finding new manga is easy. Without Afternoon I could never EVER have enjoyed a strange series like “Renshi! Ekota-chan”, a manga about a crazed woman’s naked fantasy. For kids (or closet otakus) there’s only two choice: read whatever new stuff TP or Viz has the grace to publish, or find the good stuff via scanlations. Offer them a 3rd, better choice, please.
I just realized that why there are so many western manga readers who dismisses the power of manga anthologies: most has never expericence the addictiveness and the full benefit of anthologies. It’s too bad because anthologies are in itself, a unique and special part of manga fandom. The joy of reading and enjoying random manga you initially hated and the occasional quirky 4-komas which you’ll never, ever buy in paperback. It’s too bad, because without an anthology-based introductory mechanism manga may doomed to stay the small, nerdy nitch entertainment it is today.
One last note on this: TP at least have the heart to publish an anthology for OEL mangas. The young American manga-kas are the ones who really, really need the exposure. Just thinking about from this angle makes more argument for an online-anthology: what better way to have readers start picking up new OEL manga than via an anthology anchored by, say, Furuba? Reading 1 chapter of a may not make one a fan, but reading 3 chapters of “Dramacon” in an anthology because you want to read Furuba may end up making Dramacon a favorite. It’s been done in Japan for years and years.
Does the market need more print anthologies? Yes.
Do we need online anthologies? No way.
Why? Because there just isn’t a market for them.
For all this talk about companies moving online and charging for previews, I have to ask…what is the point? These same companies already have free previews on their sites. If fans are reading them for free…why are they going to start paying for them? The logic escapes me.
Honestly, I don’t see fansubs/scanlations hurting anyone because the translations are all across the board in terms of their actual quality. I’m actually of the mind that these online downloads help build buzz for titles, but fansubbers/scanlators do have to follow their own rules and stop putting out works that are licensed. And most are really good about that. But you can always find something if you know where to look. But even then…were you really going to make that sale? Probably not.
On a different note, I do see a problem with the logic of putting OEL in an anthology. The problem is that “if” an OEL takes a year to produce a single volume, then there is no logical way for you to actually run that title monthly in an anthology. You would run out of content to run on a monthly basis in just 4 to 6 months. What happens if it became popular and you had nothing else to run? Put it on hiatus for a few months and maybe run 1 or 2 more chapters and go on hiatus again? That’s a very big concern to think about.
OEL creators don’t do their own lettering or toning, in most cases. To correct this content problem, youd have to start production on the OEL title over a year and a half to two years before it ever saw print…and that’s just a very impracticle risk for a company.
If there was a way to solve these issues, then a high-quality OEL anthology would probably do quite well.
Adam, you make a good point about online manga. Tokyopop is putting chapters up for free, but their reader is hard to use. I will say that my daughter (target market!) samples a lot of manga on the site. And as she is the iTunes queen in our house, she would easily make the switch to paying a small fee per chapter, especially if she could get us to pay for it. She gets an iTunes allowance of $10 a month, which now that I think about it is an idea the publishers should definitely imitate. If she wants more than that, which she usually does, she pays us cash. One of the problems with old fogies like me is that we aren’t trained to hand over our credit card to buy something for a quarter; the prepaid iTunes account gets around that.
However, I also agree with Tivome that most Americans are missing out on the joys of anthologies. I grew up reading British comics, which were essentially weekly anthologies, with three-page episodes of six or seven different stories. And I experienced exactly what he describes: I would start out not liking a story, but I’d read it anyway because it was in there with all the others and end up really liking it. Viz is showing that this system can work.
Adam, you know much more about publishing OEL manga than we do. I think we’re all assuming that the writers pass them along to the publishers a chapter at a time, or that the system could be retooled to work that way. If it could, a bimonthly anthology might work—or, like my beloved British comics, you could give us fewer pages more often. But I realize that may not be practical.
Well, the French company Humanoides Associe is doing just that. On the 27 of this month the first issue of Shogun is going to every Kiosk and bookstore in France, Switzerland and Belgium. It’s 300 pages thick every month and all OEL material. This is also a monthly publication and features serials running 29 or 39 pages each month. I’ve gotten personally involved with this since I think it will be a one time chance. We’ll be also talking about this extensively at our OEL panel at MangaNext in a couple weeks. Put up or shut up. Tpop Germany has been debating the idea but dismissed it for various reasons. But this French publishser has very deep pockets and it may just work since the market over there is extremly healthy (compared to the rest of the world). You can see the website here:
http://www.shoguncity.com/
Adam I hear what you said about OEL issue. I just think if THAT’s the issue then OEL artists should change their very amature way of producing manga. It’s sad to say this as I’m a supporter of OEL (with my own money) but I find the great, great majority of so called OEL can’t even be considered good doujinshi in Japan. You guys has to shape up in term of story, art, and production skills in order to be taken seriously as manga artists.
The sad fact is that no Japanese will tell the gaijin manga-ka and publishers how they really feel about OEL. They are too polite to give you guys the harsh critique. Unless you’ve eared their respect, they’re not going to trash your work. Thus far no OEL has. I heard some OEL mangaka dreamed of publishing in Japan… eh, try selling a few copy at COMIKET first.
AS for online anthologies, I really hear no real objections that make any sense to me. I guess that means that TP, composed of Western fans without any real manga publishing skills, is going to be trashed by Viz with their armies of manga pros. TP is floating due to the success of their few titles. Good luck in your future TP.
Tokyopop started out with anthologies when they were Mixx, did they not? The first part of my Sailor Moon and Magic Knight Rayearth series are in those god awful coloured compilations…. I stopped buying Shojo Beat because I didn’t like enough of the stories, but if it meant getting something like Fruits Basket or Tramps Like Us faster I’d certainly give in. I think a printed anthology makes sense, especially as newer titles are licensed – give the North American audience chapters closer to when they’re published instead of drawing the whole volumes out.
I don’t mind reading scanlations/previews on my computer, but I find it better for sampling purposes. It’s easier to linger over the art and flip back and forth (and grab back volumes!) when I have a book in hand. I also have ergonomic issues with my computer set up. Too much time mousing hurts my arm. :)
This comment has been deleted at the commenter’s request.
Well I expect this kind of response from OEL artists; I’m just talking about what I really feel. I just don’t see the quality measuring up to the top doujin artist; you can yell and scream at me all you want, but that’s my honest opinion. I would hope some of you take it as useful criticism instead of a dis, but truth always hurts I guess. I have all the respect in the world for OEL and support it with my wallet, but I just wish the quality-level would rise faster. I just don’t see ANYTHING out there that’s even close to commercial work in Japan yet.
I have been to COMIKET twice and have quite a collect to show for it, thank you very much. Have you actually been to one Akito? Well made doujin in America selling at Comiket? That I do not know and thank you for telling me that; I check with many of my otaku friends and they were clueless about such a feat. What were they doujin of? Which day and area did they sell in? I’d happily buy a Fate or Haruhi doujin from an American artist; but I have a feeling you’re all part of the Fujoshi day. Rude to sell in COMIKET? It does sound like you don’t much about COMIKET. That’s okay, not many gaijin does. Please go there first before dissing COMIKET as some sort of amature flea-market.
I’ve decided this conversation is getting old, so I’m locking comments on this post.